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EA: The Human Story [Nov. 10th, 2004|12:01 am]
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My significant other works for Electronic Arts, and I'm what you might call a disgruntled spouse.

EA's bright and shiny new corporate trademark is "Challenge Everything." Where this applies is not exactly clear. Churning out one licensed football game after another doesn't sound like challenging much of anything to me; it sounds like a money farm. To any EA executive that happens to read this, I have a good challenge for you: how about safe and sane labor practices for the people on whose backs you walk for your millions?

I am retaining some anonymity here because I have no illusions about what the consequences would be for my family if I was explicit. However, I also feel no impetus to shy away from sharing our story, because I know that it is too common to stick out among those of the thousands of engineers, artists, and designers that EA employs.

Our adventures with Electronic Arts began less than a year ago. The small game studio that my partner worked for collapsed as a result of foul play on the part of a big publisher -- another common story. Electronic Arts offered a job, the salary was right and the benefits were good, so my SO took it. I remember that they asked him in one of the interviews: "how do you feel about working long hours?" It's just a part of the game industry -- few studios can avoid a crunch as deadlines loom, so we thought nothing of it. When asked for specifics about what "working long hours" meant, the interviewers coughed and glossed on to the next question; now we know why.

Within weeks production had accelerated into a 'mild' crunch: eight hours six days a week. Not bad. Months remained until any real crunch would start, and the team was told that this "pre-crunch" was to prevent a big crunch toward the end; at this point any other need for a crunch seemed unlikely, as the project was dead on schedule. I don't know how many of the developers bought EA's explanation for the extended hours; we were new and naive so we did. The producers even set a deadline; they gave a specific date for the end of the crunch, which was still months away from the title's shipping date, so it seemed safe. That date came and went. And went, and went. When the next news came it was not about a reprieve; it was another acceleration: twelve hours six days a week, 9am to 10pm.

Weeks passed. Again the producers had given a termination date on this crunch that again they failed. Throughout this period the project remained on schedule. The long hours started to take its toll on the team; people grew irritable and some started to get ill. People dropped out in droves for a couple of days at a time, but then the team seemed to reach equilibrium again and they plowed ahead. The managers stopped even talking about a day when the hours would go back to normal.

Now, it seems, is the "real" crunch, the one that the producers of this title so wisely prepared their team for by running them into the ground ahead of time. The current mandatory hours are 9am to 10pm -- seven days a week -- with the occasional Saturday evening off for good behavior (at 6:30pm). This averages out to an eighty-five hour work week. Complaints that these once more extended hours combined with the team's existing fatigue would result in a greater number of mistakes made and an even greater amount of wasted energy were ignored.

The stress is taking its toll. After a certain number of hours spent working the eyes start to lose focus; after a certain number of weeks with only one day off fatigue starts to accrue and accumulate exponentially. There is a reason why there are two days in a weekend -- bad things happen to one's physical, emotional, and mental health if these days are cut short. The team is rapidly beginning to introduce as many flaws as they are removing.

And the kicker: for the honor of this treatment EA salaried employees receive a) no overtime; b) no compensation time! ('comp' time is the equalization of time off for overtime -- any hours spent during a crunch accrue into days off after the product has shipped); c) no additional sick or vacation leave. The time just goes away. Additionally, EA recently announced that, although in the past they have offered essentially a type of comp time in the form of a few weeks off at the end of a project, they no longer wish to do this, and employees shouldn't expect it. Further, since the production of various games is scattered, there was a concern on the part of the employees that developers would leave one crunch only to join another. EA's response was that they would attempt to minimize this, but would make no guarantees. This is unthinkable; they are pushing the team to individual physical health limits, and literally giving them nothing for it. Comp time is a staple in this industry, but EA as a corporation wishes to "minimize" this reprieve. One would think that the proper way to minimize comp time is to avoid crunch, but this brutal crunch has been on for months, and nary a whisper about any compensation leave, nor indeed of any end of this treatment.

This crunch also differs from crunch time in a smaller studio in that it was not an emergency effort to save a project from failure. Every step of the way, the project remained on schedule. Crunching neither accelerated this nor slowed it down; its effect on the actual product was not measurable. The extended hours were deliberate and planned; the management knew what they were doing as they did it. The love of my life comes home late at night complaining of a headache that will not go away and a chronically upset stomach, and my happy supportive smile is running out.

No one works in the game industry unless they love what they do. No one on that team is interested in producing an inferior product. My heart bleeds for this team precisely BECAUSE they are brilliant, talented individuals out to create something great. They are and were more than willing to work hard for the success of the title. But that good will has only been met with abuse. Amazingly, Electronic Arts was listed #91 on Fortune magazine's "100 Best Companies to Work For" in 2003.

EA's attitude toward this -- which is actually a part of company policy, it now appears -- has been (in an anonymous quotation that I've heard repeated by multiple managers), "If they don't like it, they can work someplace else." Put up or shut up and leave: this is the core of EA's Human Resources policy. The concept of ethics or compassion or even intelligence with regard to getting the most out of one's workforce never enters the equation: if they don't want to sacrifice their lives and their health and their talent so that a multibillion dollar corporation can continue its Godzilla-stomp through the game industry, they can work someplace else.

But can they?

The EA Mambo, paired with other giants such as Vivendi, Sony, and Microsoft, is rapidly either crushing or absorbing the vast majority of the business in game development. A few standalone studios that made their fortunes in previous eras -- Blizzard, Bioware, and Id come to mind -- manage to still survive, but 2004 saw the collapse of dozens of small game studios, no longer able to acquire contracts in the face of rapid and massive consolidation of game publishing companies. This is an epidemic hardly unfamiliar to anyone working in the industry. Though, of course, it is always the option of talent to go outside the industry, perhaps venturing into the booming commercial software development arena. (Read my tired attempt at sarcasm.)

To put some of this in perspective, I myself consider some figures. If EA truly believes that it needs to push its employees this hard -- I actually believe that they don't, and that it is a skewed operations perspective alone that results in the severity of their crunching, coupled with a certain expected amount of the inefficiency involved in running an enterprise as large as theirs -- the solution therefore should be to hire more engineers, or artists, or designers, as the case may be. Never should it be an option to punish one's workforce with ninety hour weeks; in any other industry the company in question would find itself sued out of business so fast its stock wouldn't even have time to tank. In its first weekend, Madden 2005 grossed $65 million. EA's annual revenue is approximately $2.5 billion. This company is not strapped for cash; their labor practices are inexcusable.

The interesting thing about this is an assumption that most of the employees seem to be operating under. Whenever the subject of hours come up, inevitably, it seems, someone mentions 'exemption'. They refer to a California law that supposedly exempts businesses from having to pay overtime to certain 'specialty' employees, including software programmers. This is Senate Bill 88. However, Senate Bill 88 specifically does not apply to the entertainment industry -- television, motion picture, and theater industries are specifically mentioned. Further, even in software, there is a pay minimum on the exemption: those exempt must be paid at least $90,000 annually. I can assure you that the majority of EA employees are in fact not in this pay bracket; ergo, these practices are not only unethical, they are illegal.

I look at our situation and I ask 'us': why do you stay? And the answer is that in all likelihood we won't; and in all likelihood if we had known that this would be the result of working for EA, we would have stayed far away in the first place. But all along the way there were deceptions, there were promises, there were assurances -- there was a big fancy office building with an expensive fish tank -- all of which in the end look like an elaborate scheme to keep a crop of employees on the project just long enough to get it shipped. And then if they need to, they hire in a new batch, fresh and ready to hear more promises that will not be kept; EA's turnover rate in engineering is approximately 50%. This is how EA works. So now we know, now we can move on, right? That seems to be what happens to everyone else. But it's not enough. Because in the end, regardless of what happens with our particular situation, this kind of "business" isn't right, and people need to know about it, which is why I write this today.

If I could get EA CEO Larry Probst on the phone, there are a few things I would ask him. "What's your salary?" would be merely a point of curiosity. The main thing I want to know is, Larry: you do realize what you're doing to your people, right? And you do realize that they ARE people, with physical limits, emotional lives, and families, right? Voices and talents and senses of humor and all that? That when you keep our husbands and wives and children in the office for ninety hours a week, sending them home exhausted and numb and frustrated with their lives, it's not just them you're hurting, but everyone around them, everyone who loves them? When you make your profit calculations and your cost analyses, you know that a great measure of that cost is being paid in raw human dignity, right?

Right?


===

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[User Picture]From: montecristo
2004-11-16 04:13 pm (UTC)

Oh please, stop the helplessness and whining!

(Link)

I found this post linked from jehosephat. I posted this reply there, but I thought it might do for a contrasting idea here as well, something to think about. I totally disagree with the tone and theme of this post. Here's why:


I can't stand the helplessness. Yes, it is stupid policy. Yes, the company WILL pay for it, eventually. I write software for a living too and I understand that that kind of process immaturity costs, big time, and EA's management is too stupid to see it. Do you hear that? It doesn't work. The fact that it's a "mean and heartless policy" is immaterial. There IS NO tradeoff between "nice" and efficent and proffit-making. No company can ignore human nature and the laws of economics and continue to prosper. Your post reads as if you fear that it IS possible. The fact is, that EA will either change and adapt or else the company will sicken and die. The people working for EA will either stick it out and wait for that, or else move on to something else. That's how the market works.


What is your point? Nobody is forcing your spouse to go to work at gun point. EA is probably paying somewhere between 80-100k dollars a year, plus fringe benefits, to work your spouse to death -- and if he's working under those conditions for less than that...well, he has my sympathy, please make him take a wise-up pill. If he doesn't like it let him work somewhere else, even if he has to switch careers or move somewhere else. If he doesn't want to do that, let him start up his own company or work his way into management at EA and change things -- anything but the whining. If you've got a better idea then implement it. Sitting around whining about how bad it is is the fastest way to get nothing done. "I can't" is a self-fulfilling prophecy.


The problem with the left is that they believe in evil. The reason they whine like this for someone to come and save the poor workers and stop these "evil" practices is because they secretly believe in their heart of hearts that evil practices are the most efficient course of action, and that people are helpless in the face of them and they are terrified that other companies will realize the "success of EA" and behave the same way. When I look at policies like this I don't think "how evil", even though it is, instead I think "how stupid", because that is even more accurate. I get tired of hearing the Marxian Left whine and cry for mommy government to step in and use the magic of force to make the bad boys play fair because that's what the left believes in -- force always works -- that's what makes things happen for them. That's how they believe that production gets done. It's just gross. Yes, let's all get together and vote to stop EA before their good idea catches on! Next week they're liable to institute flogging and then their proffits will surely go through the roof. Please.


If you want to do the smart thing, tell your spouse to polish up his resume and go looking for a better job or else work his way into management and correct the fault, or else wait for EA to suffer collapse or reorganization. It WILL happen. Expecting someone else to "save you" though, is just a fools errand.

[User Picture]From: tolaria
2004-11-16 04:29 pm (UTC)

Re: Oh please, stop the helplessness and whining!

(Link)

None of us appreciate being lectured on "the problem with the left" when this issue is more personal than political in its effect.

What you are missing is that, because the problem has personal effects for those involved, the necessary first step in dealing with it is articulating it to the public. This brings other people who've had similar experiences together, enabling a discussion to take place, during which some people involved will decide to take action. Though, admittedly, I agree with you that most people will not do anything to improve their situations.

Only when the personal is acknowledged and articulated-- something which, I can tell you from my own experience, is not possible while working at EA, which has a definite internal policy of intimidation with regard to freedom of speech-- can the political be approached. You're putting the cart before the horse, because the people who've suffered have been living with what they percieve as a secret. First, they need the secret to be outed.

I agree that people have to help themselves in life. I was often irritated at the way the programmers submitted to EA's bribes, its invasions into their personal lives. But there's a fine line between self-determination and personal responsibility, and the creepy rantings of Ayn Rand. I think what ea spouse was trying to accomplish here, first and foremost, was to establish a community of sorts, where there formerly had been none, albeit against all probability. Knowing EA's divisive policies as I do, I think that's a laudable first step. Yes, it is only a first step; but you can't really know how necessary it was unless you've lived with someone who worked there, or worked there yourself.
compensation - (Anonymous) Expand
From: (Anonymous)
2004-11-16 05:01 pm (UTC)

I'm boycotting EA

(Link)

I've not liked EA for a while now... and this is the straw that broke the camels back... I'm now boycotting EA.
From: (Anonymous)
2004-11-16 05:22 pm (UTC)

Peace in the Middle East Biyotches!!!

(Link)

Well, that foreman, he's a regular dog,
The line boss is a fool.
Got a brand new flat-top haircut;
Lord, he thinks he's cool.
One of these days, I'm gonna blow my top,
And sucker, he's gonna pay
Lord, I can't wait to see their faces,
When I get the nerve to say:

Take this job and shove it,
I ain't workin' here no more.
My woman done left,
An' took all the reasons I was workin' for.
You better not to try to stand in my way,
As I'm a walkin' out the door.
Take this job and shove it,
I ain't workin' here no more.

http://www.gamasutra.com/
http://www.gamedev.com/
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/
http://www.monster.com/


[User Picture]From: theparable
2004-11-16 05:35 pm (UTC)

Good to know ahead of time.

(Link)

As soon as I finish taking animation, I was planning on working for the EA in Vancouver, considering it's close by and I wouldn't have to move away from my family and friends. It seems with what you told me though, i'd be glad to find somewhere else to work. Thank you for the info.
From: (Anonymous)
2004-11-16 05:38 pm (UTC)

damn girl you fine

(Link)

I wish I lived in vancouver...
[User Picture]From: namnesor
2004-11-16 06:03 pm (UTC)

(Link)

I used to work at EA quite awhile ago, but I quit for almost exactly this reason. After being pushed to just about ninety hours a week, and nothing had changed in the form of consideration for our health or personal lives, I knew I couldn't work there anymore. So I know your pain, firsthand.
From: (Anonymous)
2004-11-18 08:53 am (UTC)

(Link)

And you QUIT.

Thank you for playing.
From: (Anonymous)
2004-11-16 06:19 pm (UTC)

"Game Over" at CNN has picked up the story

(Link)

I skimmed through the last three pages or so and didn't see this mentioned, but my apologies if this has already been posted.

Chris Morris, who writes the semi-weekly game industry commentary article "Game Over" has posted about this issue and a few others plaguing the industry at the moment. The article can be found at http://money.cnn.com/2004/11/15/commentary/game_over/column_gaming/index.htm He is skeptical, since the claims can't be confirmed, but I think this is to be expected with mainstream media. I paints a fair picture of the situation, IMHO, saying:

"It's no secret that pretty much everyone works too much and is too stressed out these days. So why all of the attention on game developers? Incredibly long work-hours are burning out many bright, creative developers before they have a chance to mature and contribute their best work."

So its not the front page of CNN.com, and I doubt that anything would be mentioned on the CNN news channel, but any sort of coverage from mainstream journalism is good for us.

Oh, and EA's stock is down a bit, to 48.40. I think it peaked at about 49.75 yesterday, but I don't know if this is all part of the normal rise-and-fall pattern of most stocks, or if it is significant in any way, or related to the CNN article in any way. I guess only time will tell.
From: ravidrath
2004-11-16 08:04 pm (UTC)

Re: "Game Over" at CNN has picked up the story

(Link)

Wow - I E-mailed Chris Morris and he didn't sound like he was going to cover this, but I'm very happy that he did. I can't say I'm too pleased with his skepticism, but a mention on CNN is a big deal.

-Peter
From: (Anonymous)
2004-11-16 06:28 pm (UTC)

Be Careful...the road isn't always paved with rose petals

(Link)

This is no way intended as a legal opinion or advice to act upon....

Before your go the union or worker organization route, realize that EA will probably take some rather draconian steps to quash you. Why wouldn't they? I mean our current political regime is not labor friendly and they're already doubled work hours without blinking an eye. The damages and remedies paid for keeping a union out of the place of employment are usually less than allowing a union into the workplace in general and remedying the unfair labor practice (otherwise why do it?). Remember that if a union did arise at EA, an employee could no longer take the working condition issue directly to an employer. It would ahve to go through the union.

The system is set up today so that there really isn't much of a reason to refrain from committing unfair labor practices. The remedies for this route take a long time to receive and you may be out of a job for years before the company has to either reinstate you or pay back-wages.

A lawsuit may be quicker, but again those most vocal will probably loose their jobs during the suit. Again, there's no reason really hindering EA from playing this situation with clothed in an iron fist. Are you going to risk you're job when Bob in th next cubical lost his? Sure Bob may get compensated down the road, be its not likely that this will equal the money he's lost in the meantime. They don't tell you about this part of the class action business.

Its a sticky wicket no matter which avenue traveled. But whatever happens, but I'd feel out how strong the bile is on the employees' side. If it seems like there's a fragile and barely majority number wanting to fix this issue, the more likely EA will crush any uprising even using blatantly illegal tactics. Although supposition, the extra damages paid to the head of the movement in compensatory and punative damages are probably far less than paying for its unfair labor practices to the mass of employees.

Media attention, media attention, media attention...this issue needs more of it. I don't know if EA sells stock, but if it did, it'd be interesting if this situation came up at the next stock holders meeting.


From: (Anonymous)
2004-11-16 06:33 pm (UTC)

EA Abuses Just Made CNN

(Link)

http://money.cnn.com/2004/11/15/commentary/game_over/column_gaming/index.htm
From: (Anonymous)
2004-11-16 06:34 pm (UTC)

Re: EA Abuses Just Made CNN

(Link)

It's halfway down the page after the Valve/Vivendi stuff
From: (Anonymous)
2004-11-16 06:53 pm (UTC)

Cry me a river...

(Link)

You want to work with the new media you have to pay the price. When I started in development I had the same type of pressure, workload and schedules. I slept in the office under the desk, had a poor diet and dreamed about work to the point I didn't know if it was real or imagined. If you can't take the heat, get out. There will be others that will be more than willing to pay the price.
From: (Anonymous)
2004-11-16 07:18 pm (UTC)

Define "new media"

(Link)

.
From: (Anonymous)
2004-11-16 06:54 pm (UTC)

Save us Jeebus

(Link)

I used to work at another poorly managed company on a super high-profile "3rd person action platformer based on a major movie license!" It was, you guessed it, EA published and it was their red-headed step child until they saw that the movie it was based on was not going to be a load of crap and, infact, looked like it could trump the Star Wars franchise in its epic qualities. (Lo, it did!)

At this point EA changed gears and lit a fire under our collective behinds and the project, a year and a half out from completion, kicked into overdrive. The red-headed step child was now expected to be a "AAA" performer. (I'll note that it was in the end a AAA performer but it had little to do with EA's slave driving mentality or heavy handed yet mentally retarded management style.) Immediately the hours began to ramp up and 5 day weeks became 6 days weeks. 6 days became 7. 8 hour days became 12 hour days which begat 16 hour days. But the sad part was that the hours the tema put in were never enough. It was never enough dedication to be satisfactory. We were "lazy" and unmotivated." We "didnt care about the game" and "had not pride in our work." Wow, how very motivational.

EA will have you beleive, very successfully I might add, that they made this game. For all of you who think this game was made by EA, (if you know which game I'm talking about), think again. This game was made with the blood sweat and tears (literally on all three accounts) of the hard working and dedicated to the point of insanity development team. No thanks to EA. They footed the bill and got in the way. That's about the lot of it.

Anyway, I digress. EA felt that the game wasn’t moving fast enough (despite it being on schedule) and wanted to add more and make it bigger. This is a common approach by them, I've learned. "Oh, its on schedule? SWEET! We can fit more in then!" To ensure that that happened, they moved in. Literally. At the protest of our company's managers and development team, they physically moved into the office, Set up cubicles, drank our coffee and peed in our toilets.

That wasn’t the bad part. It was the one producer to every 3 or 4 development staff approach. Each one of them making their own schedule for each person. TPS reports and memos flowed from their garbage spewing mouths like so much water over a falls. Every direction from one "producer" was met by a contrasting direction from another. Features and tasks were heaped on at an alarming rate and any suggestion of the impact on the schedlue was either scoffed at or met with a speech that went something like: "For the good of the game! Dont you want to make it the best ever? In the end you'll have the satisfaction of balhblahblahblah..."

Their tyrannical grip on us tightened with every passing day and people began to snap. Good folks with great demeanors became mean, strong people with go-get-em attitudes became weak, the proud became depressed. On and on.

I realize this sounds overly dramatic but it was truly this way. I'm leaving out more than you know because the story is the same as every other one in this post. Anyone who thinks that EA is a decent place to work is dead wrong. I simply cannot illustrate how awful they are, how poorly managed and underhanded they are.

I'm glad all this is going down and I hope a judge slams them and slams them hard. This pattern of game development must not be allowed to continue or it will propagate to other companies (it already is.) We are not the film industry and never will be. We cannot work like this. Its time to stand up to it! I dont know that the class action suit being levied at them right now will have any affect but we cant just stand by and let them abuse us good people like this.

To all of you who have left, made a stand, spoke out, I applaud you. The more that happens, the more EA and its clones will have to take heed. It will be a long road but we'll get there faster the more we stand together.

Keep on keepin on.
From: (Anonymous)
2004-11-16 07:28 pm (UTC)

My Advice

(Link)

my advice would be to "secretly" alert the media, form a union, hire a lawyer and sue the pants off of them, or move to more respectable companies such as Ubisoft, and Nintendo (they may not be the best, but they are a hell of a lot better than EA)
Re: LOTR? - (Anonymous) Expand
From: (Anonymous)
2004-11-16 07:26 pm (UTC)

Similar Situation at Sony

(Link)

Don't want to go into more details than that, By posting this I am saying it's a problem and SCEA Employees may also do a class action suite. Not saying that it is done at other companies so it is fine. Here I know it's from bad management. It destroy's peoples lives and is against the law, but they still require it.
From: unionjosh
2004-11-23 06:00 pm (UTC)

Re: Similar Situation at Sony

(Link)

My name is Josh Pastreich. I am a union organizer for IATSE 16. If there is anything I can do to help, even just answer some anonymous questions, I would be glad to do it. It is time someone took a stand against what is going on in this industry. unionjosh@local16.org
Josh
[User Picture]From: decemberking
2004-11-16 07:27 pm (UTC)

hear hear.

(Link)

I'm an employee in the gaming industry. And I'll be damned if most of what you have said isn't true for others as well. I have been in the entertainment business supplying comp and effects, animation and content for a decade. Almost literally, a FULL decade. And I feel at every turn that someone has been screwing me, that I'm being milked dry. Oh, not all of the jobs are like this. But anyone in this business WILL feel it soon enough.

So I applaud your courage, to voice your SOs plight. Too often we let ourselves be manipulated by our human nature and need to belong... in our loved ones we can find solace- it's a blessing to also find strength as well.

kudos to you.
From: (Anonymous)
2004-11-16 07:32 pm (UTC)

What a Fucking Whiner!!!!!!!

(Link)

Tell your SO to get another job if he doesn't like it. Do you think this is a communist nation? EA is profitable because it knows how to work hard. Microsoft is the same. Maybe your SO should work for another game developer. But wait, most are going out of business because they had the misforture to hire programmers like your SO. Programmers that could not hack it.
From: (Anonymous)
2004-11-16 07:39 pm (UTC)

[EDITORS NOTE]:

(Link)

Please disregard these unfortunate outbursts. They are often posted by poor clueless bastards that cannot even approximate knowing what they are talking about.

Pity the handicapped.
From: (Anonymous)
2004-11-16 07:39 pm (UTC)

Interview in Game Developer Magazine

(Link)

Howdy spouse. I'd like to interview you for Game Developer magazine. Please email me at ahandy at cmp dot com.

I'll protect your anonymity
From: (Anonymous)
2004-11-16 07:56 pm (UTC)

Selfish much?

(Link)

Oh dear, it seems like someone is getting a little too cushy if they are complaining about something that is their own fault.

Why do you go to a 3rd world country, no job worries at all. Just got to think about where your next meal will come from, if the next glass of water will kill you, if you will survive childbirth, if you will catch AIDS after cutting yourself.

Puts things into perspective doesnt it, some people are so selfish. Get a life would you?
From: (Anonymous)
2004-11-16 08:02 pm (UTC)

[EDITORS NOTE]:

(Link)

Again please disregard the self righteously ignorant.

They know not of what they speak.

They cannot help themselves.

It's a condition of sorts.
Re: Selfish much? - (Anonymous) Expand
Re: Selfish much? - (Anonymous) Expand
Re: Selfish much? - (Anonymous) Expand
Re: Selfish much? - (Anonymous) Expand
From: (Anonymous)
2004-11-16 08:00 pm (UTC)

(Link)

Some of you people need to get a life. If you only come here to post "You're a whiner!" or "Get a life!" or "Just quit!" then you are contributing absolutely nothing to the conversation.

There is a point to this article written by ea_spouse. There is a hope that change can be made to the industry if enough people band together to realize there is a problem.

If you don't like people voicing their opinions, think people are whiners, or whatever, then just let it go. It's NOT YOUR PROBLEM, so why come in and rain on our parade? If you don't think it's a big deal, then fine, to you it's not a big deal. That doesn't mean it isn't a big deal to us, and that we don't have the right to a) try and make change, and b) discuss the situation without being accused of whiners.

Some of you people just make me sick. Complacent much?
From: (Anonymous)
2004-11-16 08:06 pm (UTC)

:)

(Link)

Wow, you pretty much accepted my point. I dont think you want people coming here to say "Quit whining" because you know that you are morally in the wrong. A conversation is not much of a conversation if everyone agrees.

You are extraordinarily naive and ignorant if you think anything will happen. I myself work for 9 hours a day for 5 days and 4 hours on saturday, even then i work in my free time yet still manage to enjoy my life with my wife and kids. Its because i enjoy my job, probably because it isnt money motivated like the games industry.
Re: :) - (Anonymous) Expand
Re: :) - (Anonymous) Expand
From: (Anonymous)
2004-11-16 08:02 pm (UTC)

Sorry to be blunt, but...

(Link)

I can understand if a fulltime EA employee puts in extra hours into a game hopes for promotions or maybe profit sharing motives...but if you're just a contractor and you work yourself to death for no overtime pay..you're just, uh, DUMB.

I'm sorry but if you're that stupid, you get what you deserve.

From: (Anonymous)
2004-11-16 08:06 pm (UTC)

[EDITOR'S NOTE]:

(Link)

Yet another saad saad example of an individual that just "doesn't get it".

Public Service Announcement:

Please refrain from eating fish (particularly large cold water fish such as salmon) during pregnancy. The high mercury content has been shown to cause mental defects.

Think of the children.
[EDITOR'S NOTE]: - (Anonymous) Expand
From: (Anonymous)
2004-11-16 09:07 pm (UTC)

Corporate mindshare is the pits.

(Link)

My husband used to work for EA and has been in the industry for over twelve years, but he's not in actual production anymore thank god. This industry is awful to people and I can't believe the things they get away with. My husband's had to deal with HR people at EA and other local companies make under the table agreements to not accept resumes from the other's companies, bribing sales and marketing execs to support their project to get more funding or staffing resources from higher levels and how they keep an arsenal of marketing material on hand for current games in productions to be released the exact moment a rival game gets any press in magazines or on websites through crooked arrangements with the magazine/website editors. And the hours they made my husband work, my god. He finally decided to leave when he began having hallucinations from sleep deprivation on his drive home in the early mornings. The first year we lived in our house, my neighbors thought I was a single mother until I mentioned my husband and they paused and had a puzzled look on their face. "Your husband?" they asked. Funny, but sad, nonetheless.


From: (Anonymous)
2004-11-16 09:14 pm (UTC)

Re: Current Ringling Artist.. EA came to us!

(Link)

Wow. It was extremely selfish and irresponsible of you to comment as you did. You are welcome to your own opinions, but there was no need to drag Ringling and your fellow classmates into this. If you don't want to work there, fine. But you DO NOT represent the vast majority of animation students here. You can only speak for yourself. I don't feel the same way you do. So don't presume to speak for me.

I'm wondering where you're getting your information, because I've also spoken with the animation interns from last year and they enjoyed it. I also know several alumni who are employed at EA and are very happy there.


[User Picture]From: spankusmaximus
2004-11-17 04:20 pm (UTC)

Re: Current Ringling Artist.. EA came to us!

(Link)

Hello, EA Top Echelon Employee...
From: (Anonymous)
2004-11-16 09:14 pm (UTC)

(Link)

Wow. I work in adult entertainment film production and after reading all this, the execs in my industry are practically compassionate humanitarians compared to your execs! I love the irony! I'll work for Larry Flynt before I work for Larry Probst any day.
From: (Anonymous)
2004-11-18 08:02 am (UTC)

(Link)

Is he hiring??
From: (Anonymous)
2004-11-16 09:34 pm (UTC)

This is why american programmers are outsourced.

(Link)

Enough said. Too many americans believe that they are oppressed because they have to work hard. In reality they do not know what oppression is. This person can quit their job, work for someone else, or suck the govt tit i.e. welfare. Oppression is not having options.
From: (Anonymous)
2004-11-16 09:55 pm (UTC)

Ignorance is bliss isn't it?

(Link)

The reason why things are outsourced has to do with economics, and that's it. Is it cheaper to do something somewhere else? Great!

Why are things cheaper elsewhere? Any myriad reasons. Illegal labor practices, no legal recourse, much cheaper cost of living, etc, etc.

Do you really think a programmer living in America, making as little as a programmer living in a country with a much cheaper cost of living can have the same quality of life?

Get real.
(Deleted comment)
From: (Anonymous)
2004-11-17 04:08 am (UTC)

WHY DON'T YOU DO IT!

(Link)

Oh yes, you're yellow belly.
From: (Anonymous)
2004-11-16 10:42 pm (UTC)

Something positive that YOU can do.

(Link)

Here is something positive that you - yes, you, the person who is reading this comment - can do.

There are many independent game-developers around the world who release games they have written for free. Why? Because they love it! Often, they just release them on the Internet so they can share them with everyone else. They may ask for money or gifts, but they don't expect anything.

What you should do is find some of these games and play them yourself. If you like one, send a donation to the authors. They will really appreciate it, and this will encourage them to do more of the same. Even sending a nice e-mail to them will really brighten up their day. If enough people do this, these independent developers can make a living for themselves and dedicate all their time to doing something that they love. One place where you can find such games is on the Sourceforge games and entertainment section (http://sourceforge.net/softwaremap/trove_list.php?form_cat=80) (beware, many of these games are unfinished). Another place is on Allegro.cc (http://www.allegro.cc/) . I'm sure there are many more such sites on the Internet that offer free games, so if you want to mention one, please follow up to this comment..

With enough people downloading these games, everyone will realize what a game is all about, and will eventually stop buying the soul-less crap churned out by the zombified staff of the mega-corps.

Will the managers of EA suddenly become enlightened? Will a union form that will overthrow the management? That is something most of us have no control over. Will independent game developers rise from the ocean of commercial games? This is something we can all participate in. Download some games today, play them, and let the authors know you like them. If they get enough gifts, they will be inspired to make some more.

Let's bring game-development back into the hands of the game developers.

Let's make games fun again!!!

From: bwingb
2004-11-16 11:11 pm (UTC)

Re: Something positive that YOU can do.

(Link)

Ask me if I'd like to see people put their money where theur mouth is..."YEAH!!"
From: (Anonymous)
2004-11-16 10:49 pm (UTC)

Here's an idea.

(Link)

What people need to do is to make EA management notice that they are unsatisfied with the current situation and that the employees are willing to do SOMETHING about it.

How about all EA employees organize a massive break. What would be the reaction if ALL dev teams employees will take a break at exactly 4PM on FRIDAY NOVEMBER 19th. I'm sure that the management will notice that all the employees are all of a sudden gone for 10 minutes and are all just standing in the parking lot.

If you are for it, post a reply.
From: (Anonymous)
2004-11-17 09:33 am (UTC)

Re: Here's an idea.

(Link)

I'm down, we should do it at EARS! We should do it at 2pm, that is more in the middle of the day.
[User Picture]From: antimuffin
2004-11-16 10:56 pm (UTC)

To every moron who comes here and says "stop complaining"

(Link)

If you're one of the many idiots who has skimmed this article, ignored most of the comments and then posted some ridiculous comment along the lines of "Stop complaining, it could be worse, you could be in situation X," then this post is directed at you.

Just because someone else is in a worse situation than you are doesn't mean your situation isn't bad. Just because worse things could happen to you doesn't mean you shouldn't speak up.

Should victims of theft let the crime go unreported because somewhere out there, someone is getting shot? Should someone who lost an arm due to a medical mistake not complain to the hospital because somewhere out there, someone has *died* due to a medical mistake?

Should someone who is the victim of illegal practices by an employer not speak out just because somewhere out there, someone else is getting screwed over even more?

It doesn't make any sense. None. NONE AT ALL. Not in this situation, not in ANY situation. You are *extraordinarily* unlikely to be the most miserable, most suffering, most anguished, most unfairly treated person on the planet at any given time. There will ALWAYS be someone whose suffering exceeds your own. Does that mean nothing bad ever happens to you? That no injustice ever enters your life?

Things can be bad without being the ABSOLUTE WORST. In fact, they can be pretty DAMN bad. So pointing out that "things could be worse" is a job for Captain Obvious, not something that needs to be said to people who are suffering. OF COURSE things could be worse, jackass. But that doesn't mean that they aren't bad, and it CERTAINLY doesn't mean you shouldn't talk about them and try to make them better.

And to the morons of the slightly different variety who claim the people involved should "stop whining and just quit," you, too, are jackasses. Quitting solves your own personal problem, assuming you're even in a financially secure enough position to be able to do so. But what about everyone else? What about the poor sap who takes your place? Talking about how shitty it was there, telling the world about the illegal labor practices, warning the next generation, getting EA in legal trouble, suing the pants off of the managers who are personally responsible-- THAT'S solving the real problem. THAT'S what this is all about. Obviously quitting is on the to-do list for most of EA's employees. You'd know that if you read other people's comments before posting your own. But that's just a place to start. These people aren't whining, they're trying to get organized. They're standing up for themselves. They're telling the Corporate Asshats at EA to FUCK OFF instead of just slinking away and begging for a new job somewhere else while crossing their fingers and hoping it's less shitty.

Talking about injustice isn't whining. Pointing out that other injustices are worse doesn't constitute an intelligent comment. And posting before you read and think makes you a jackass.
From: (Anonymous)
2004-11-16 11:07 pm (UTC)

Re: To every moron who comes here and says "stop complaining"

(Link)

Your rant is a whine. "Oh the injustices of the world are all coming down on me...." People should not complain they should act. I don't feel the least bit sorry for this person but I do for you. You are the type that is never at fault it is always someone else. Oh poor you.
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